070: The Messy Middle | Leaving Comfort, Facing Fear & Becoming Who You’re Meant to Be

0:08 SPEAKER_02: Welcome to the Warriors Haven podcast, the place where discipline meets purpose and everyday people become unstoppable. I'm your host, Jaisha Sutherland, a retired Army drill sergeant, single mom, and the founder of the Warriors Haven. Around here, we talk fitness, mindset, and the mission of building a stronger you, mentally, physically, and financially. Because this isn't just about the gym. It's about life, leadership, and living on your terms. So gear up, lock in, and let's step into the haven where warriors are made.

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1:38 SPEAKER_02: Now, let's get into the episode. Hey friends, welcome to this next episode on the Warriors Haven podcast. And I'm really excited. This is a special episode. We have a special guest joining us today. And like I said, I'm really excited. I don't know where you're listening here in the world, but we're gonna jump into this episode, which I think is gonna be a lot of takeaways. So have your notebook ready for this one. And y'all know I like asking and starting my episodes with a question. So, what if the life you're asking for requires you to become someone you've never been before?

2:13 SPEAKER_02: What if the career change you've been thinking about requires you to walk away from security? What if the dream you've been postponing requires you to be willing to be uncomfortable? And what if the thing you're calling fear is actually the beginning of freedom? Because there's a part of transformation nobody likes to talk about. It's not the before, it's not even the after, it's the messy middle. That space where you've made the decision, but you don't know exactly what comes next, where you're excited and terrified, where you question yourself, where you wonder if you made a mistake, and where sometimes you have to learn how to trust yourself before you have any evidence that everything is going to work out.

2:58 SPEAKER_02: Today's guests understand that messy middle personally and professionally. Jennifer is a licensed mental health therapist based in Myrtle Beach, South Carolina. And she made a courageous transition from corporate America into building her own private practice. But that's not only part of her story. She's also a solo traveler. And I love that connection because both journeys require something incredibly important. Self-trust. So today we're talking about leaving comfort, facing fear, building something of your own, learning to be alone, and discovering that sometimes the person you've been looking for has been you all alone.

3:45 SPEAKER_02: Jennifer, welcome to the Warriors Haven podcast. How are you, my friend? Hi, thank you for having me. I'm wonderful. How are you? I'm so excited. Okay, so before we get into the career transition and the solo travel, I want people listening all over the world to get to know you. Because sometimes we hear someone's title, licensed therapist, business owner, solo traveler, and we assume they just somehow became that person. But there's always a story behind the title. There's always a version of you that existed before the version people see today.

4:19 SPEAKER_02: So take us back for a moment. Who was Jennifer before private practice? And what was life looking like when you first started realizing that, realizing that something needed to change?

4:32 SPEAKER_00: That's a fantastic question. Um, the version of me before stepping fully into private practice was looking perfect on the outside. I was successful, financially successful, had all the things, doing all the trips, could do what I want when I wanted. And like seemed like it was all together. But inside, I was very disconnected. I was very much out of alignment. I was extremely, extremely burnt out. Um, in that season of my life before taking that brave step, I was a director of a mental health clinic in a county jail.

5:13 SPEAKER_00: And um we're talking about corporate America because I worked for a corporate company providing services in a jail. And so for therapists of the world, you get some of corporate world and some of community mental health, which is extremely draining. And while doing all that, I also had a private practice on the side that I was building and trying to start. Um, and also like I've got to actually do real work and see growth and like have change because working in a jail, you don't see a lot of that.

5:46 SPEAKER_00: Um so in that season of my life, it was a lot. And the burnout, because of my trauma history, I'm a hustle girl. I'm like, we will survive, we will get through, like we are just gonna like work harder, work smarter, like power through, and not paying attention and not like really being intentional about like why am I feeling so disconnected? Why am I like no longer wanting to socialize and connect and just shutting down? And like, why am I not really finding the same joy in things that I used to?

6:20 SPEAKER_00: So the version of me before I took these brave steps was like a shell of myself because of burnout.

6:27 SPEAKER_02: Oh, wow. So, Jennifer, was there a specific moment when you knew I can't ignore this anymore?

6:35 SPEAKER_00: Yes. Um, and the specific moment where like I actually was like, I have to take action was I uh I journal constantly in regular life, you know, like in all aspects of life, but I have a prayer journal that only comes out when I'm in church, and I had written a prayer, and I looked at like I was scrolling through it and I looked at a prayer that I had written a year before, and it was the exact same words and like the exact same like sadness and like sense of discontent and like unhappy with how I was showing up, how I was feeling, how I wasn't like living out my values because of burnout, and that like here's a year of me feeling the exact same way internally.

7:22 SPEAKER_00: I don't want to go another year feeling that same way.

7:26 SPEAKER_02: Oh, wow, that is so powerful. And I think that's important because so many people listening may be sitting in that exact place. They haven't left yet, they haven't made the decision yet. But something inside of them is saying, there's got to be more than this. And that's honestly, Jennifer, where I want to begin. Can you take us back to the moment you realized corporate America wasn't where you wanted to spend the rest of your life? What was happening internally that made you say, I can't keep doing this?

7:55 SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it it was one because clinically the interventions I want to use, my perspective on treatment was no longer in alignment. Um, so I wasn't even doing work that I believed in, you know, like I was working in a jail and where cultures shifted in one way or the other, and people stand on one way or the other. But it was we were trying to make a jail become a mental health clinic when it they're not meant to be mental health clinics, and we can't provide that. And because I worked for a corporate company, they don't want to pay enough staff, they don't want to hire enough staff, they want to put all of these limitations on what you can do.

8:39 SPEAKER_00: So then you're in this constant battle of trying to serve, can't serve, being forced to do things that we're not even supposed to be implementing, and not having enough staff to do it. And so clinically, I was out of alignment, and then personally, it was just like I'm exhausted, I'm drained. All I do is like pour out and pour out and pour out, and I'm not filling my own cup the way I need to fill it. And so then I'm just becoming very disconnected, I'm becoming jaded, I'm becoming like I just want to isolate and veg and just get through the day.

9:19 SPEAKER_02: Oh, wow, that is so powerful. So I want to say here, you know, sometimes leaving something familiar isn't just a professional decision, it's an identity decision, which you kind of just kind of touched on there. You know what your paycheck looks like, you know what your schedule looks like, you know what people expect from you, and then suddenly you're considering walking away from all of that. Jennifer, what was happening inside of you?

9:44 SPEAKER_00: Oh, it felt bad, gross, like very I was just very much out of alignment with my values. And my values are super important to me. And like living with them that within them is how I function. And to no longer be doing that, like you physically feel tired, exhausted, the discontent becomes heavy. You just become very like disconnected from the world, you know. Like that was the biggest like the biggest realization coming out of it. Like, I realized how much I missed connection, like true intention, like connection with people when I came out, and I realized how much that was affecting me in it.

10:27 SPEAKER_02: Oh, wow, wow. So I have a question for you. Um, did you have people questioning your decision when you made when you were like, I'm gonna go ahead and like do this private practice and I'm gonna go down this journey? Did you have people questioning that?

10:42 SPEAKER_00: Um I uh didn't. I had more people like, what's taking you so long? Because I there was no reason for me not to have done it years ago. Like, I was already doing it, I'm capable of doing it. I'm busting my ass here for someone else as the director in this jail by myself. So it's like you're already doing it, why are you not? The only person that was like against it was my supervisor at the jail, of course. Right, right, right, right, right.

11:13 SPEAKER_02: Oh wow, how long did you sit with the idea before actually acting?

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11:20 SPEAKER_00: For me, um I sat with the idea of going full-time private practice before acting, probably like a year, that whole last year, thinking, thinking. And then when I finally had that aha moment in at church looking at my journal, I was like, okay, I have to take action. And two weeks later, there's a conference that I go to every two years, and that conference was occurring, and I did all the work to be ready, get ready, deal with my shit that was coming up. Like lots of trauma wounds were being activated through this and were limiting me.

12:01 SPEAKER_00: And so did that work and then had six months of like action plan and was taking action through that.

(Cont.) 070: The Messy Middle | Leaving Comfort, Facing Fear & Becoming Who You’re Meant to Be

12:09 SPEAKER_00: So it was a year of thinking and then six months of action.

12:13 SPEAKER_02: Oh, I love that. Friends, if you can relate to what Jennifer just said, I hope you wrote that part down. So I love that because there's a difference between knowing you want change and actually being willing to pay the emotional price of change. And you kind of touched that right there. And that's where I think the real story begins. Because leaving is one thing. Figuring out what happens after you leave is something completely different. So, Jennifer, you made the leap into private practice, but there's usually a part of the story people don't see, which is that messy middle.

12:48 SPEAKER_02: What were some of the scariest moments after you left the security of corporate America?

12:55 SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like for me, and like as a therapist, we know that like trauma wounds are activated in different stages of life. And we don't talk enough at how they are activated in entrepreneurship. And so for me, for example, some of my trauma wounds are like stability, is extremely important to me. I came from nothing, and I had finally built this life that was secure, it was stable, it was what like I wanted and needed in order to feel safe. And here I was gonna take a risk that could possibly rock that boat.

13:32 SPEAKER_00: And like that was activated. And uh, so like that was one of the biggest ones. It was like that fear of like, am I gonna lose what I've built? Am I gonna lose my safety? Am I gonna lose my security? And um, that one kept me like, I would have panic attacks, I would just be like freaking out, be like, what am I doing? And so being able to recognize that my trauma wounds and everyone's trauma wounds will be activated during these and be aware of it, but still take action. Like I might be having a panic attack, but I'm still following through on whatever my task was that day.

14:10 SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah. Oh, that was very powerful. Thank you for sharing that. Now I want to talk about the part Instagram doesn't show us the messy middle, the moments where you don't have the answers, the moments where you're building something, but you don't know whether it's going to work. Jennifer, what scared you?

14:29 SPEAKER_00: Oh my god, so many things. Being visible, losing my safety, like financially, like, am I going to make the same? Am I going to like have to like shift my lifestyle? Um, literally, like, some was like the success, you know, because trauma wounds were activated. And like, can I like did I actually do that? Like, who would believe that I actually just did what I did? You know, like so many things were scary. But for me, the biggest things were visibility and the safety, the fear that I was going to lose the safety.

15:08 SPEAKER_02: Oh, wow. Okay, so let me ask you this: what was harder? The practical side or the emotional side?

15:15 SPEAKER_00: Oh, the emotional side. I can check boxes all day long and do chats all day long, you know? But the emotional side, because and again, I think it's that we just don't talk enough about how our past, our stories, our old stuff, our old habits show up in entrepreneurship. Because even like here I am, for example, like coming out of burnout, knowing that I'm drained, exhausted, that I've been like to be a director and have a private practice at the same time is insane. Like, it's insane workload. And to realize, like, you're leaving this because like you want a slower life, you want more control, you want more freedom.

15:59 SPEAKER_00: And then I started private practice and I'm saying yes to everything, my schedule's fully booked, I'm like signing up for like every program I can to get clients. I'm like, I just left and did the same damn thing to myself. Like, and then I'm in the same place emotionally, and having to like feel that, recognize that, and be like, all right, Jen, like, how do we change how we say yes to things? How do we like set some boundaries with our schedule? Like, how do we recognize how we're feeling, why we're feeling that way, and shift it?

16:31 SPEAKER_02: And you know, I have to say, I can relate so much to what you just said right there, because as I'm growing the Warriors Haven podcast team, it's that initial emotion of like, I can take on so much more. And then realizing, no, no, no, no, no, pause, stop. You've done so much. It's not adding more, it's being able to now maximize what you've already created in the space that you have. So I'm really grateful you just made that comment because I can personally relate to that in my journey right now.

17:02 SPEAKER_02: So I want everyone listening to really hear this because sometimes we look at somebody who's successful now and assume they were confident the entire time. But confidence doesn't always come before the leap. Sometimes confidence is something you build because you took the leap. And there's such an important distinction there, friends. So, Jennifer, as a mental health therapist, what did you learn about yourself during the transition that you couldn't have learned if you would have stayed comfortable?

17:34 SPEAKER_00: I think like what I learned is that like I learned that this was an area of my life where old narratives were showing up and that I had to do some more work because in this season of my life, I was taking some like brave risks that were activating old wounds. And so trauma, it up changes how we view ourselves, others, the world, you know, and then like we get to determine what we do with all of that and how we move forward. And the stories and narratives that we take away from trauma will do work and we may heal it in one aspect of our lives, like maybe in relationships.

18:14 SPEAKER_00: We do the work, and maybe like we no longer feel fear abandonment, and like we can have secure attachments and all of that. But then you'll see, like you step into another area of life of maybe it's marriage, or you're going through a divorce, or you're starting a business, and those wounds are activated because it's a totally different part of your life. And so it was like, okay, here we are. We are just being brave and taking steps, and it's all reactivated. So we have to do the work again. We have to like heal this aspect.

18:44 SPEAKER_02: Oh, wow, that that is very powerful. And I don't think many of us look at it with how you just explain that. I think a lot of us come into this work of like, well, you know, I did the work, I applied, I did the workbook, and so I did that. And then we're faced with something else in a different area, and then we're wondering why we're having to deal with this all over again. And it's not understanding that it's a different part in the same category that we need to now work with. And so um, that was very powerful.

19:18 SPEAKER_02: And sometimes we're asking, how do I get more confident? Um, when the better question might actually be, what experience do I need to give myself so I can discover that I can trust myself? And that brings us into another part of your life that I think is quite fascinating because you don't just build uh life professionally, you also started exploring the world by yourself. So now let's shift gears because I think there's a beautiful connection between leaving corporate America and traveling solo.

19:52 SPEAKER_02: Both require you to step outside of the familiar, both force you to make decisions, and both can bring up fear. But one of the things I love about your story is that you've learned to be comfortable experiencing the world on your own terms. So, Jennifer, there's a difference between being alone and being lonely. You've become someone who travels solo. What has traveling by yourself taught you about trusting yourself?

20:21 SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it has taught me that like I can do hard things and like I will just roll. Like I got this. Like, I it's and it's so funny because in travel, I won't spiral beforehand, I won't freak out beforehand. Like, I I remember one, like the first time I went to France, I was taking a train from Paris to Strasbourg, and I could not figure the shit out. Like, I had the it was like so confusing. The like the officers, whatever they were there were not nice, like they were not helpful. I'm like panicking because I need to get on this train, but I can't figure it out.

21:02 SPEAKER_00: I got through it, but I would never like I was never panicking before solo traveling. In uh transitioning to private practice, I was freaking the hell out before doing it. Yeah, you know, like I in travel is just like I do hard shit. Like it's we just go, like we do it. It's a very different yeah.

21:23 SPEAKER_02: So what surprised you once you actually did it?

21:30 SPEAKER_00: Um, I've been solo traveling since I was like 18. Um, I think what like surprised me the most is just that like a lot I get a thrill from it. Like it's my high, you know, like it's my escape, it's my it's what brings me joy. Um so I think that and I think like looking back, what surprised me the most is that like I have been traveling solo since I was like 18 and I was fearless, but like I'm never second guess. Like I Traveling solo back when it was like Airbnb just came out, and you would rent a room in a stranger's house and like didn't know who they were, didn't talk to them, but like I'm doing it, like and like no fear, no nothing.

22:13 SPEAKER_00: So it's interesting to see how like fearless I was back then. Yeah, and here I am at 41, and I'm anxious, taking risks in business. Wow, wow, yeah, that's so fascinating.

22:27 SPEAKER_02: And so I want to ask you, did you become more confident because of the solo traveling?

22:34 SPEAKER_00: I think it absolutely helped 1000%. I think for me it was therapeutic and it was healing, um, which then led to confidence. You know, I think that in my like late teens, early 20s, like I had a lot of trauma in my childhood, left when I was 17, was on my own. Like it was very healing and empowering. And then even the first time I went to Paris, like it was so healing for my inner child because it was like I always dreamed of going there. And then, like, here I was, like, look at how far we've come, like, look at this life I've built.

23:08 SPEAKER_00: So that healing built confidence.

23:11 SPEAKER_02: Oh, wow, that's powerful. Um, I have to ask you because you you solo travel, and I I personally just want to know did you discover that you actually enjoy your own company more?

23:23 SPEAKER_00: Uh yes. I love the quiet, I love being alone. Like, I love just being like I just love it. It's like calming for me, it's peaceful for me. I can be intentional, I can self-reflect. Yeah. Oh, I love it. Do what I want when I want to.

23:40 SPEAKER_02: Yes, yes, yes. So has solo travel changed the way that you make decisions in everyday life? Does it have a pretty big impact?

23:51 SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah, I think so. I think in general, because of things I've been through, my philosophy on life, my mindset, that I'm very much like a like, let's just take risks, like, let's just try. We'll work through the emotions, but I'm not gonna let emotions stop me. Um, and that aligns, it's in the same category. Like, I do the same thing. So, yeah, I'm 1000%. I think so.

24:16 SPEAKER_02: I love that. Yes, yes, yes. And so I'm I feel like friends that are listening to the episode are probably like, Jay, why are you asking Jennifer these solo traveling questions? And I want people to really dig deep because of the message, the message and the the bridge and comparison behind it. So we'll see if our friends are able to get some of these takeaways. And I think, Jennifer, I don't, I don't think that we talk enough about this particular thing, being alone and actually um become a relationship with yourself, with ourselves.

24:50 SPEAKER_02: And you start learning what do I like? What do I want? Where do I want to go? What do I actually enjoy? Instead of constantly asking, what does everybody else want to do? And that brings me to the woman listening right now who may be thinking, girl, I could never travel by myself. Jennifer, I want to talk to her. You can. So for the woman listening who says, I would love to travel, but I'm scared to go by myself. Where should she actually start?

25:24 SPEAKER_00: I would tell her to start with one, why are you scared? Okay. And typically, like all of I work mostly with women, and they all know I solo travel and like I'm a huge advocate for it. And most of them say they're fear of what other people think. Like, I don't want people looking at me, like I don't want them thinking I'm weird or that like I don't have people. And I'm like, y'all, like, you know, I have a partner, you know I have family, you know I travel with these people, and I solo travel. You know that you're not gonna think that I'm like a weirdo because I'm out there by myself.

25:56 SPEAKER_00: And like, stop thinking so much about other people. But I would start with a why, and then two, just start with going to lunch by yourself. Oh, start with just going to lunch by yourself. Lunch is normal, people do it by themselves all the time because of business and life, and just start there and just go to lunch by yourself.

26:14 SPEAKER_02: Oh, I love that. I love that, and I love that you believe you don't necessarily have to start with getting on a plane, so you can start much smaller. Like you just said, you can go to lunch by yourself, you can sit in a restaurant, order your food, put your phone down, and just exist with yourself. And I can tell you, Jennifer, I think a lot of people are gonna struggle with that part right there. So if someone listening and thinking, I want to travel, but I'm terrified, like completely terrified, what would you tell her or him?

26:49 SPEAKER_00: That's a good question. I think I would tell them that, like, I would ask them to look at something else they've done in their life that terrified them. And what did you get out of it? Like, what came out on the other side? You know, we've all done something that scares the shit out of us. So look at somewhere you did it somewhere else in your life. What did I get out of it?

27:11 SPEAKER_02: Okay, oh, I love that. I love that. How could someone build confidence gradually in this space with the solo traveling?

27:20 SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think again, like start small, like start with just going to lunch by yourself, like get comfortable with just being alone, like being able to sit with yourself, you know? That I don't have to distract myself, I don't have to like avoid myself. Um, because that's one of the blessings of solo travel, is you get to deal with your stuff, like you get to sit with yourself, you know. We all have busy lives. I would start there, and then I always encourage like women that I work with. Like we live in Myrtle Beach, so Charleston's like a two-hour drive.

27:54 SPEAKER_00: It's a very cute town, it's small, it's got a lot of history, it's got great restaurants. Just start with a day trip. Go take a day trip, go out there by yourself, like plan it out yourself, do what you want, start with a day trip. Oh, I love that. I love that.

28:12 SPEAKER_02: Um what safety considerations should solo travelers think about?

28:20 SPEAKER_00: This is an interesting question. Um it was funny because I and probably because I worked in a jail for seven years and I've been doing it for so long, like I don't even think about safety, which is probably bad, you know, but like because I've I've worked though in an environment that it's like okay, like I've gotten used to having to like be in dangerous situations. But so when I thought about it, I I think it's like one, you're like always aware of your surroundings, like be very aware of your surroundings.

28:50 SPEAKER_00: Um, especially like if you're going to Europe, like be aware of your surroundings, like look up on all of the um the government websites to find out like what's going on in that country, like what are any of the warnings? Make sure people that like you love and care about, like they know where you're at, they know where you're staying. If you want to share your location, all of that, um, you can do that. Um, but just but like being aware is the most important thing. Be aware of your surroundings, you know.

29:19 SPEAKER_00: Pay attention. I love that.

29:20 SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Pay attention for sure, for sure. So I want to ask you, what do you wish you knew before your first solo trip?

29:37 SPEAKER_00: I guess I wish I knew where it would take me. You know, like what it would bring into my life and just how impactful it would be, you know. Because maybe even then, like because I look back and I'm like, I would have done so much more if I had like that knowledge when I was younger. Like I would have put more effort into that.

30:03 SPEAKER_02: Oh wow, wow, that's powerful. That's powerful. So I love that because courage doesn't have to begin with a plane ticket. Sometimes courage begins with the reservation for one. And you sit there and realize nobody is actually paying as much attention to me as I thought they were. And then something starts to shift. So, what do you think we're really afraid of when we're afraid to do things alone? Being physically alone, being judged, something going wrong, or discovering that we're actually capable of more than what we thought.

30:36 SPEAKER_02: Which one do you think it is?

30:39 SPEAKER_00: I think it's probably all of them for everyone. Like everyone's gonna have a different reason. I could say for me, it was in like, I guess, the very beginning, it was like that fear of just like like for I'm gonna use Europe, like going to Europe my first time, um, as an example. It was just the fear of the unknown of like figuring stuff out in a country that I don't speak the language, that like I'm not like going to know what to do, where to go. It was just the unknown of navigating something that's outside my comfort zone.

31:14 SPEAKER_00: Right. Yeah, no, that was mine. That's but I think from the women I talk to in my practice, a lot of them fear judgment and the opinion of others and how they're perceived. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

31:27 SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah. I can I can totally, totally see that um as well. And I I think that that spills over into other areas of our life too, which which blocks us from doing other things because you know, you're not gonna launch that business because you're afraid that the family members might feel some type of way that you're doing this, and you know, your people are looking at you as like a it's a selfish thing type type thing. And it's those mental blocks. Um, so I think it's so much more than you know what we decide we want to do with our our dreams and our goals um that also stop us.

31:58 SPEAKER_02: And so I kind of want to slow down here just a little bit because you are a mental health professional. Um, what is actually happening psychologically when we avoid something because we're afraid?

32:12 SPEAKER_00: Ah, that's like a really good question. Um I I think that psychologically, when we're avoiding something, we're afraid. Like we're just reacting off of something that we have experienced in the past and the story that we created based off of what we experienced in the past. And typically, how we get through something, we needed it in that time. So, like if you experience childhood trauma, the ways that you learn to cope and get through it, you needed to at that time. It served you at that time. But when they start showing up 20 years later, 30 years later, they're not the same coping mechanisms, the same survival mechanisms, the same routines, habits that you need in that season of life.

32:58 SPEAKER_00: So then they're no longer serving you. So psychologically, you're just acting off of what you were taught and what you learned in the early stages of your life or when you went through something traumatic later in life. But it may not be what you need in that moment, you know, and that's why being able to reflect and be comfortable sitting with yourself and working on yourself is important because it's probably just an old narrative, an old response, and you just need to sit with that and rewire it and reframe it.

33:31 SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah. Oh, that's so powerful. And, you know, I I love that because I have other episodes where I do talk about, you know, our brain only goes off of what it's familiar with. So it's not necessarily knowing really what to do next. It's going back to that compartment in your brain where it's like, oh, there's what this was something similar, and this is how I reacted. So then this is how I'm gonna react. So, you know, like what you're saying is identify that and then do the work and relearn that pattern to then get a different outcome.

34:04 SPEAKER_02: And so that is such a powerful distinction. And I want people to also know, too, that fear can stay, don't go. But sometimes fear is simply saying, I just don't know what happens next. And those are two very different things. You don't necessarily have to eliminate fear. You have to learn how to move with it. So, Jennifer, when I think about everything we've talked about today, from leaving corporate America to creating your own practice, from navigating uncertainty to traveling alone, I keep coming back to one word: trust.

34:40 SPEAKER_02: Trusting yourself, trusting your decisions, trusting that you can figure things out, trusting that even if something doesn't go according to plan, you can handle what comes next. And that's really what the Warriors Haven is about. It's not about becoming fearless, it's about becoming someone who knows even when life gets hard, I can meet myself there. So I want to give you one final question. If you could sit across the table from the woman who's standing at the edge of a major life change right now, whether that's leaving a career, starting a business, traveling alone, or simply choosing herself again, what would you tell her?

35:26 SPEAKER_00: I would just tell her like, you can do this. Like, we can do really hard things. And that, like, I would tell her to let's just get really vulnerable and let's sit in that emotional story that you've been avoiding or carrying. Let's just sit in it for a hot second, let's get it out, let's see how it's showing up right now, and then like let's walk through it. You know, don't let any old stories or any limitations you're taking from your past inhibit your future.

35:59 SPEAKER_02: Oh, that's powerful. And friends, I want you to sit with what Jennifer just said for a second. If you have your notebook, I hope you wrote that down. Because somebody listening may be standing exactly at that edge. Maybe she or he hasn't told anybody yet. Maybe they are thinking about leaving their job. Maybe they're thinking about starting something. Maybe they may be recently divorced. Maybe the children have grown up and you're asking yourself, who am I now? Maybe she's simply tired of living life that looks good from the outside but doesn't feel right on the inside.

36:37 SPEAKER_02: And maybe he or she doesn't need the entire roadmap, but maybe you just need permission to take the next step. Jennifer, I want to thank you. Not for coming on the podcast, but for being willing to talk about the part of transformation that we don't always see the uncertainty, the fear, the questions, the identity shifts, the moments where you have to figure things out as you go. Because I think so many people believe that once they make a decision, everything is supposed to be clear. But sometimes the opposite happens.

37:14 SPEAKER_02: Sometimes you make the decision and then you enter the messy middle. And the messy middle isn't proof that you made the wrong decision. Sometimes it's simply where you're becoming the person capable of living the life you said you wanted. And Jennifer, you've reminded us today that courage doesn't always look dramatic. Sometimes courage looks like leaving a secure career. Sometimes it looks like opening a private practice. Sometimes it looks like getting on a plane alone. And sometimes it's as simple as sitting down at a restaurant and ordering lunch for one.

37:49 SPEAKER_02: Because the goal isn't to never be afraid. The goal is to stop allowing fear to make every decision for you. Jennifer, before we let you go, can you tell everyone listening where they can connect with you, learn more about your work, and follow your journey?

38:04 SPEAKER_00: Yes, absolutely. Um, you can find me on Instagram at Wanderless Therapist and my white, my website, which is the Wanderless Therapist, um, Wanderless Therapy L L C. Um, and so we'll be I'm hosting a workshop in January, and it is about how our trauma ones show up in entrepreneurship. So if you desire to like do that deeper work and kind of explore how maybe it's showing up in visibility and insecurity and communication and conflict resolution in your business, I would love for you to check me out.

38:36 SPEAKER_02: Oh, I love that. I love that. So, friends, all of this information will also be in the show notes. But please reach out, get in touch with Jennifer. And if, like she just mentioned, you're kind of dealing with these areas in your life and you're looking for that expertise and that support, sign up for this cohort that she's kicking off now in January and start the new year, 2027, with all of these tools and these skills in your toolbox. And to all my Warriors Haven friends listening from wherever you are in the world, I want you to remember this.

39:08 SPEAKER_02: You don't have to have the whole map. You don't have to know exactly how everything is going to work. You don't have to wait until you're fearless. You just have to be willing to take the next honest step. Maybe your next step is a career change. Maybe it's starting a business. Maybe it's booking the trip. Maybe it's going to lunch by yourself. Maybe it's simply asking yourself, what would my life look like if I trusted myself just a little bit more? And wherever you are in that process, I want you to know something.

39:40 SPEAKER_02: You are not behind. You are not broken. And you are not the only one figuring it out. You are in the messy middle. And sometimes the messy middle is where the transformation actually happens. Again, Jennifer, thank you for being a part of the Warriors Haven podcast. And to my Warriors Haven family, like I always end, stay strong, stay focused, stay ready. I'm Jay, your favorite drill sergeant, and I'll catch you on the next episode.